Can You Hear Me Now? An intimate chat with Celina Caesar-Chavannes
Can You Hear Me Now?
An intimate chat with Celina Caesar-Chavannes about her new memoir
In 2015, Celina Caesar-Chavannes became the first Black person elected to represent the federal riding of Whitby, Ontario. She was appointed Parliamentary Secretary to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and later reprised her role with the Minister of National Development et la Francophonie. But in 2019, to the dismay of her constituents and Black people across the country, she had already decided not to seek re-election. In Can You Hear Me Now? Caesar-Chavannes chronicles the debilitating racist attacks and episodes of depression that troubled her time in Ottawa. In addition, we receive explanations of her heated private exchanges with Prime Minister Trudeau – a source of ongoing speculation. For certain, political junkies will relish details of these contretemps. Much more fascinating for me is her riveting account of the decades leading up to her election; the tale of a challenging childhood and disoriented adolescence out of which a wildly determined and (in her own words) disruptive young woman carves out a career, building, in time, her own multi-million-dollar medical research firm. Can You Hear Me Now? is a phenomenal story about an extraordinary woman. What follows is my surprisingly intimate interview with Celina Caesar-Chavannes.
DBN: May I speak plainly? This is not the book I was expecting you to write. I thought it would be focused entirely on your successful business and on your time in politics. Also, I am surprised by your candour.
CC: I didn’t want this to be a typical memoir: I didn’t want it to just show the highlights of my life. I wanted to share my whole experience- to be vulnerable. I wanted the reader to think about how the threads of our humanity are connected, even though they are so frayed right now.
DBN: You spend a lot of time in the book discussing your childhood. Your parents left you with your grandmother in Grenada when you were six months old. But by the time you were two you had joined them in Canada. Even so, you refer to this sadness throughout the book, although I would hardly expect you to remember it.
CC: Consciously I put a bookmark in my head that this had happened- that my parents had left me. I don’t know why. I just bookmarked it. It was always in the back of my head. I was always trying to fit into somewhere or something.
DBN: Your home life was very strict. If you misbehaved or rebelled your mother would beat you. At the same time, you value and respect her strength, love and support. Is this a contradiction?
CC: I appreciate you seeing both sides. I feared my mother while she feared for my future. I don’t think West Indian mothers are trying to be our friends. She was not going to explain to me her fears: That this is a big-ass country, and you are going to get your butt kicked, so I am going to push you so that you will be prepared.
In the dedication to the book, I describe my mother as “the iron that sharpened me,” and this is really important. Because if she was the feather that sharpened me, or the pillow that sharpened me, I wouldn’t be that sharp. It was only after I got through my time in politics that I surmised the truth: I was only able to survive because she made me sharp as nails.
DBN: But you have three children- a son and two daughters- and you are not that kind of mother.
CC: That’s true. I am not that kind of mother. I am my children’s friend. But my mother took a risk by leaving Grenada. She did what she knew to do to make this place safer for me. And I take the risks I take – I’m disruptive- to make this a safer place for my children. She was the mother for then and I am the mother for now.
DBN: You are an entrepreneur who built a very successful research management firm from scratch. I love that part of the book. There is such a sense of excitement surrounding the start up of your company even though it seemed to happen quite suddenly.
CC: Yes, it was sudden. I had to make a decision. We (my husband and daughters and I) had been living a nomadic life. We had been in England where my husband was teaching and then we came back. I couldn’t find a job and we needed money. I thought, let me start a company. I started off being a research consultant. Then a big pharmaceutical company came along, and I structured my company based on that client’s needs, specifically the need to manage critical trials.
DBN: To what would you attribute your tremendous success?
CC: I was successful because I couldn’t throw money at figuring out how to grow my company – I had to actually grow it. I had to be innovative because I couldn’t just buy 50-thousand dollars worth of advertising. I didn’t have a 100-thousand dollar budget to launch projects. Instead, I wrote research papers and Letters to the Editor. I had to be nimble and strategic.
DBN: With your company ReSolve Research Solutions you were the boss – you made all the decisions, and you were doing extremely well. What made you want to trade all of that in for a career in politics?
CC: I decided to run for Parliament because my background in medical research made me realize how much people with neurological conditions struggle to get financial coverage. I’ve heard of people having to divorce their spouses or move out of province in order to be eligible for assistance. I was especially concerned about caregivers. I wanted to give them some respite. I wanted to connect the dots between research and policy.
DBN: Do you feel you were successful?
CC: I still feel Canada has a way to go with regards to brain research. For instance, we had a dementia strategy and there is a strategy for autism. If we could get brain researchers in different areas to cross-pollinate ideas, I think we could address more of the challenges people are facing. On the other hand, I am extremely proud of working with Jane Philpott to secure five-Billion dollars from the federal government for mental health. I was glad to be vulnerable with my colleagues about my own struggles with depression. This was also about colleagues who needed help.
DBN: Do you feel your business and research skills transferred well to the Hill? Were you well-utilized in your role as Parliamentary Secretary?
CC: My skills do transfer well. Or they or could have. My business acumen, my ability to look at strategy. I have two MBAs! Absolutely if the environment you are in is inclusive enough you will be utilized. But I get in the room and all they want to do is send me to represent them at the National Museum of African American History and Culture.
DBN: You are saying that tokenism played a part in the official roles you were given. What else did you learn about Canadian-style racism during your time on Parliament Hill?
CC: I didn’t know it was so subtle and insidious. Much as I wanted to hide the face of my company in the early years (to avoid racism), on Parliament Hill, as one of few black women, I couldn’t hide myself. The racism is so subtle, sometimes you miss it. My regret is that I allowed myself to question what was happening to me. It slowed me down for the first two years. I have been disappointed in myself. I should have known better. I let racism get to me as I had not for most of my life.
DBN: I think you are being hard on yourself. As Black people we are often caught off guard when the face of racism is educated and cultivated.
CC: When I was Parliamentary Secretary civil servants, in particular Black people, would come to my office to tell me how many times they had been passed over for promotions, no matter how many degrees they had earned, or how many languages they spoke, or how long they had worked for the ministry. I put forward a private member’s bill that would require the Canadian Human Rights Commission to report annually on the federal government’s efforts to promote Blacks and other people of colour. But it died at the end of the session.
DBN: I wonder if your racist experiences contributed to the depression you eventually fell into. Or would you describe it more as a breakdown?
CC: It was a breakdown. I was in complete crisis. It was the hardest thing to deal with as someone who is Type A, always trying to be better and is super-hard on herself. I just couldn’t manage to get myself out of it. My husband and my good friends pulled me up.
DBN: What advice do you have for Black women who are considering a career in politics?
CC: They are not people on the sidelines, but people who should be at the center of things.
DBN: What did you learn from the experience of writing this book?
CC: It took writing this book to see how my mother shaped me, to see how my daughters influence me. And I want to tell women that I see them. Exposing myself, baring myself, I see them clearer than I ever have before. I see what women can achieve, all our voices working together.
I spoke to Celina Caesar Chavannes by phone on January 29, 2021. She was at home in Whitby, Ontario.
